Friday, October 06, 2006

ANSWER: TO MAKE SURE HE'S DEAD

The headline of the Sun-Sentinel story: Kin of man who killed deputy want probe into why he was shot 68 times

The deputy was from Polk County, Fla. The family of the dead cop killer wants the governor, Jeb Bush, to rustle up an independent investigation into the shooting of their loved one. The Sun-Sentinel reports:
Nine SWAT officers fired a total of 110 bullets at 27-year-old Angilo Freeland last week after he fatally shot a Polk County deputy and his dog and wounded another fleeing from a traffic stop. "This is not about a lawsuit. Nobody is suing anybody," the family's attorney, Grady Irvin, said at a Thursday afternoon new conference. "What this is all about is this death is uncommon in the means and manner by which Mr. Freeland died -- 68 bullet holes. His family just wants to put this issue to rest and they want a search for the truth, that's all." An Orlando-based civil rights group also on Thursday called on U.S. Attorney Alberto Gonzales to look into the circumstances surrounding Freeland's death.
An uncommon death caps an uncommon life.

19 comments:

Amy said...

That's only 12 shots per officer..ht.

Amy said...

Disregard the "ht" at the end, I don't know where that came from. Something to do with Blogger's Word Verification

Ken said...

So what?

Anonymous said...

Sounds more like a mob hit or possibly a scene from The Godfather than trained police in action.

Another way to look at it is the fact that they fired 110 bullets, hit him 68 times which resulted in 42 bullets that missed and hit who or what?

Come to think of it, that also sounds like what my dad used to call "buck fever".

Amy said...

I'm interested to hear my husband's response. He is a law enforcement officer range instructor.

I forwarded this post to him hoping he'd comment... but he's stuck in Chicago.. or was it Mephis or Minnesota... I lost track after the second flight cancellation.

Anonymous said...

Did your husband have flight problems today? Yesterday was hell. Late flights, missed connections, backed up airports, "holding patterns." The terrorists have won. Flying sucks. Might be bad managment though.

Amy said...

Two flights cancelled because of mechanical problems.

Joel said...

Flights were horrible yesterday! I was supposed to fly from Indy to Chicago back to OKC (where my truck was) and then drive to Springfield. Caught the first flight fine, then was told our flight was cancelled after an hour and a half delay. Rebooked from American to Northwest going through Memphis to OKC. That flight cancelled because of a bad engine; so I rebooked through Minneapolis to OKC. Left OKC at midnight and arrived in Springfield shortly after 4:00 am this morning; and still without my luggage.

Anyway, to the point of why I am commenting (which I really wish I knew who I was talking to; anonymous always bothers me because if you want to say something I think you should have the pride of character enough to say who you are).

110 rounds by nine SWAT officers is a well trained and normal response. Most SWAT officers would be as proficient as I am in firearms if not more. I haven't read what weapons these officer were using; however, a typical law enforcement firearm will have 16 rounds in the weapon (15 round magazine and one in the chamber). On several occasions I have been timed firing 16 rounds in less than 3 seconds, and 46 rounds (a typical law enforcement carry of two extra magazines) in under eleven seconds.

Law enforcement is trained to stop the agressive action by using a reasonable level of force given all the circumstances. The circumstances in this case included a suspect who had clearly demonstrated his complete and utter disregard for the safety of the public and particularly for his desire to comply with the commands given by law enforcement. These deputies had already buried the results of the suspects actions in a previous encounter. They understood fully the consequences of losing an engagement with this suspect.

In every encounter involving law enforcement, the goal is to have a successful conclusion; whether it is peaceful or not is dependent upon the suspects actions. In this situation, the suspect was given an opportunity to peacefully surrender. His response to this opportunity was to point the weapon he had stolen from the previously slain deputy at the officers. The officers immediately fired their weapons for approximately two to three seconds causing the death of the suspect. It was the suspects choice, and from what I understand was likely the end result he was looking for.

My only question would be why 144 rounds were not fired (16 per officer). Given that same scenario, I promise my weapon would have been empty in less than three seconds.

As for the forty-two misses. That actually demonstrates tremendous accuracy under stress. In most law enforcement shootings only 20% of the rounds fired by law enforcement strike their intended target. This is actually amazing considering that someone is shooting at them and they are still able to hit one in five shots. The suspect only connects in less 2% of the rounds they fire. Anyone can hit a staionary piece of paper in a low stress/no stress environment; however, it is amazing to hit a moving target when your life literally depends on it!

Anonymous said...

Would you prefer I make up a name? I see no point in making up a lie.

I'm sorry, but 110 shots is little more than an informal execution and 42 misses is 42 possibilities at hitting an innocent bystander. If I did the math correctly, it appears that you think an accuracy rate of 61.8% or not quite 2/3 and a miss rate of slightly more than 1/3 is great. And I find the idea that 20% accuracy considered normal to be extremely alarming.

This is probably naive of me, but I would have thought that a high stress situation/fear would sharpen the officer's focus and ability to concentrate on the task at hand, but that simply does not appear to be the case.

You may be impressed. I'm not.

Anonymous said...

He killed a cop. Got his ass dropped in response. No need to cry over spilled thug blood.

Joel said...

I would prefer you said who you are and left a link to your blog if you had one, but that is okay.

First off, one of the four cardinal rules of firearms safety that law enforcement follows (criminals don't btw) is know your target and what is beyond. In other words, they fired at, and law enforcement almost always fires in a direction and manner where if they miss, there is no possiblity of injury to a non-involved party. Again, criminals don't do this.

As to the accuracy, yes you are extremely naive on this. Let someone shoot at you and see how accurate you are able to return fire, if you even stick around long enough to try! This is the real world not some television set where you get a fifty chances to get it right.

Anonymous said...

Other anonymous. I am not sympathetic to the criminal. I am concerned about wild shots.

Dear Joel. I don't have a blog. While its true, no one has shot at me with the intent to harm me, someone has shot in my direction in an attempt to intimidate me and no, I didn't run away. Aside from that, stress has always sharpened my ability to focus and concentrate on just one thing. I'm just surprised that it doesn't appear to do the same for others.

Know your target and what is beyond is what my dad taught me when he was teaching me to hunt. But.

If you know what your target is then you should be taking your shots more carefully and shouldn't be missing the "target" 1/3 of the time. And if you're emptying your weapon in 3 seconds, you aren't really aiming. You're just pointing in that direction and pulling the trigger.

Anonymous said...

And by the way, whatever happened to our court system, trial by jury, etc.? Or is that just another quaint, outdated custom that has been tossed in the trash?

Julie said...

Like Joel said, the suspect is the one who chose not to have a trial. He knew what would happen if he raised his gun. He diclinded the right to a trial.

Brad said...

Anonymous, some would commend your bravery when being shot at(for intimidation purposes) and not running but not from me. Maybe your bravery was from the knowledge that the percentages were on your side as Joel pointed out. Not me, as if I were not armed and trained(by Joel) I would be running to the hills as there is still a 2% chance that the bad guy gets it right.
As I have what some would call a speck of law enforcement experience, the numbers don't lie. I hear you reference your fathers words and training and that is good. What people don't realize is the difference between the streets and deer woods training. Those deer don't shoot back and they are not out there wanting to be shot or harm others.
I don't want to lose sight of the real meaning of this conversation though and I must admit, I haven't read the full article. I honestly think the number of rounds fired seems a bit high on the surface. One man and 100 plus rounds? I have heard too many stories to where the suspect was so juiced that one round didn't stop the suspect like it does in the movies. For the most part, we all watch the crime shows and movies and when it comes to real life, we tend to base our opinions on what we watch. It would be great if it were that easy and it only took one round per bad guy(SO offices would love that budget) but reality isn't always made in Hollywood.

John Stone said...

Joel ... I find this pretty hard to defend. (Did the person actually shoot at the officers or merely raise whis weapon?) Let me ask you this. The was a cop shooting in NYC a few years ago and the suspect (who happened to be an innocent bystander) was shot 68 times. At autopsy it was found that one bullet entered the botton of his foot and exited around his hip.

The justification of that one was roughly the same as yours. If you happen to remember the case would you care to comment?

Anonymous said...

Joel and Amy,

Last time I checked, Joel was no longer a member of law enforcement. Is it not true that he is now playing soldier?

Amy said...

That's right. Joel recently resigned his position as the Director of Training at the Sheriff's Department. He is now preparing for deployment with the Army Reserve.

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