Tuesday, October 14, 2008


With a little less than 24 hours to go before the final presidential debate of the 2008 season, we can be sure of certain things:

-- John McCain will huff and puff. He may bring up the Bill Ayers issue, as he threatened to do on Tuesday:
"You have another debate coming up. The final debate. Many of your supporters are eager for you to confront Senator Obama on the Bill Ayers relationship in particular. Hillary Clinton even brought this up during the primary. Sen. Obama says you should have the guts to do it in person. So will you?" McCain was asked by KMOX's Mark Reardon.

"Oh yeah," said McCain. "You know, I was astonished to hear him say that he was surprised for me to have the guts to do that. Because the fact is that the question did not come up in that fashion so -- you know -- I think he's probably ensured that it will come up this time."
But only if the moderator brings up the issue first. We think. Probably.

-- McCain will try to mute the manic. He must do this to even have a chance of winning. Barack Obama's biggest strength in the past two debates was his serious calm. He acted like a president; people could see him in that role. That put him on level ground with McCain.

-- Obama will do everything not to screw up. He's the only one who can lose this race. He's got to know there are millions of people looking for an excuse to opt-out of voting for Obama. Some don't like him because he's black. Some don't like him because he's got a thin resume. Some don't like him because he's the modern-era Slick Willie, always a little too smart for his own good. One false move by Obama on Wednesday and daylight will disappear between him and McCain.

-- Everyone will smile when it's over, and we will know nothing more of substance about either of the two men running to run our world. The debate commission should starts charging the candidates lowest-unit rate for the ad time. Viewers get talking points, burnished by months of stump time. Lots of sound, little fury. Maybe we should make then dance.


Strannix said...

You may be surprised (or you may very well not be, if you have a set of ears) how many Obama supporters have been dismayed that he has not "fought" more during the previous two debates.

And, conversely, there have been calls for McCain to "take off the gloves" (though I've been wondering when he ever had them on, considering the incendiary things he has said during his rallies & stump speeches).

Supporters of both candidates forget, however, that the debates are not for us, the partisans, for we have made our decisions, in some cases, months previously.

No, it is the ever-courted "undecideds" who get all the love & attention at this point in the campaign. And, it would seem, the last thing they want to see is viciousness from either candidate for the other.

Since it is the undecideds who will determine the outcome of 20 days from now, it stands to reason that this debate will be no more exciting than those coming before it.

One thing we can take to the bank (while it's still solvent): as before, a draw is a loss for McCain.

Anonymous said...

Vote for Joe the Plumber and Barney Smith!

Strannix said...

Joe the Plumber definitely had a good night.

American Patriot said...

Joe the Plumber may very well end up being Barackmadinejad's "October Surprise" by peeling away the layers on a liberal onion.

When Obama uttered "spread the wealth around" should be a game changer.

Anonymous said...

When exactly did Obama utter that phrase? I heard McCain use it, but must have missed it from Obama. I've also watched the "Joe the plumber" video on YouTube and did not hear Obama utter that phrase.

Have also become aware that "Joe" owes back taxes to the IRS, has no plumbing license, has no plan to buy the business for which is now one of two employees, is a registered Republican, and is related to Charles Keating.

Finally, an independent analysis indicates "Joe" would actually keep more of his money under Obama's plan than under McCain's unless that plumbing business bills about double what it currently is billing. That $250-280,000 seems to be pre-expenses (gross) income not post-expenses (net) income.

Anonymous said...

I saw a video in which Obama uttered the phrase
"spread the wealth" when talking to Joe the Plumber. It was taken and used out of context by McCain though, and since he mentioned him at the debate, Joe's life has been under a microscope.
All this attention about the taxes he would have to pay AS AN OWNER OF A SMALL BUSINESS MAKING OVER $250k, is moot, as HE DOESN'T OWN A SMALL BUSINESS. On top of that the biz he works for doesn't have the proper county license for plumbing work, and as anon 945 pointed out, Joe himself doesn't have a plumbers license to work in the county in which his biz does biz. Anon 945 is also correct about the taxes Joe owes. Joe's American dream is, I fear, still a dream and yes, in his current situation, would be better off under the Obama tax plan. Glad to see AMPAT is still reading this board. Only slightly bitter on this thread so far. Must be on the meds today. Remember AMPAT, "Every day in every way, I'm felling better and better".

Anonymous said...

Anon 815 here again, just pulled this off Politico, which says Joe's boss does have the proper papers. Read for yourself the transcript of the conversation between Obama and Joe. The story also suggests the McCain campaign did not vett this guy before shining the spotlight....

"The exchange between Obama and Wurzelbacher that first brought him to the McCain campaign’s attention, occurred Sunday while the Democratic nominee was canvassing for votes in Toledo.

“I'm being taxed more and more for fulfilling the American Dream,” Wurzelbacher told Obama, adding he was concerned about having to pay more taxes as he worked towards his goal of buying his own plumbing business, which could draw income of $250,000 a year. “Your new tax plan is going to tax me more, isn’t it?”

Obama said that, under his proposal, those making $250,000 or less would not pay more in taxes, but incomes above that level would be subject to a higher tax rate.

“It’s not that I want to punish your success, I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you – that they’ve got the chance at success too,” Obama told Wurzelbacher. “I think that when you spread the wealth around, it’s good for everybody.”

Since then, the encounter has also provided fodder for conservatives alleging his tax plan would amount to a massive redistribution of wealth.

McCain said Obama's plan would stop entrepreneurs such as Wurzelbacher from investing in new small businesses and keep existing ones from growing.

Even before the debate concluded Wednesday, local TV stations, network producers and journalists from around the country were trying to reach Wurzelbacher. By Thursday afternoon, he had been picked to pieces.

Wurzelbacher acknowledged to reporters that he doesn't have a plumber's license, but said he didn't need one because he works for someone else at a company that does residential work. State and local records show Wurzelbacher has no license, although his employer does.David Golis, manager and residential building official for the Toledo Division of Building Inspection, said Wurzelbacher still would need to be a licensed apprentice or journeyman to work in Toledo".

American Patriot said...

The Obama campaign is attempting to divert the attention away from "spread the wealth around" comment with a comparison of tax plans.

Obama's mouth is what's gotten him in trouble. It's not whether or not Joe's a plumber, or if he makes $250k a year, or if he's a registered Republican. It's INCOME REDISTRIBUTION and Obama got caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

Enough with the frickin' smoke screens.

Anonymous said...

Smoke screens like lipstick on a pig? (By the way, can Americans feel free to use the word lipstick, or the pig phrase thing again w/o being accused of referencing Palin? Do we have your permission? Please, pretty please.)

Smoke screens like sex ed for kindergarden kids?

Smoke screens like "palling around with terrorists"?

Smoke screens like calling Obama a Muslim?

Smoke screens like saying Obama wants to change the National Anthem?

Smoke screens like not wearing a lapel flag pin?

Smoke screens like not having ones hand over the heart for a rendition of America the Beautiful?

Anonymous said...

Don't forget the ACORN smoke screen. Voter REGISTRATION fraud is nothing new. Petition fraud is nothing new, especially when signees get paid per name. When it becomes VOTER fraud, then the Justice Department should step in and stop that shit. Don't we have to match up name/address and all that stuff at the polls before we can vote? When Mickey Mouse can walk in and successfully cast a vote on election day, that will make news. Of the hundreds of names that have been added fraudulently to the lists, how many of those "people"
will show up the first Tuesday in November?
Talk about a smoke screen....

Anonymous said...

The ACORN outrage is simply so the Republicans can cast doubt on the outcome of the election if it doesn't go their way. Meanwhile, Joe the Plumber is being used as a smoke screen by the Republican party by feigning outrage that Democrats and the MSM are putting him under the microscope and ruining his life. Pardon me, but wasn't it McCain who brought this guy into the limelight?

American Patriot said...

Excuse me, Anon 7:30 p.m, Barackmadinejad went to Joe's neighborhood....not the other way around. He also made it quite clear he was going to buy the plumbing business that made $250,000+.He never said HE made 250k.

And so what if McCain mentioned him in the debate. Did NBC park a sat truck outside his home because McCain said to? No. The left decided to demonize Joe just like they do everyone who disagrees with them.

What this demonstrates is the left HATES success. The left wants the RICH to pay more and GIVE it to people the left deems less fortunate. Joe the Plumber, through his question, exposed Barackmadinejad for the socialist he is.

And by the way, if Joe the Plumber doesn't make $250k doesn't that put him in the middle class? And if it does, why do the Dems rip this guy a new one? Isn't this the group of people Barackmadinejad stands up for?

Apparently not.

Anonymous said...

Uh, excuse ME Ampat. Yes Obama went to Joe's neighborhood. Yes they talked. Yes Obama made a comment about wealth spread around. Yes it was taken out of context and used against him. But methinks you are spreading something else around. Neigher you nor I nor Rush nor Katie Couric would've had a second thought about Joe the Plumber had it not been for McCain. McCain even apologized to poor old Joe for bringing the attention when he was on Letterman's show Thursday. You also prove my point about feigning outrage about the attention Joe is getting by feigning outrage. May I copy and paste your words?
"The left decided to demonize Joe just like they do everyone who disagrees with them". And "why do the Dems rip this guy a new one"? Please explain how following up and reporting the facts on the background of a fellow who was mentioned at least 24 times in a Presidential debate is demonizing or ripping the new one. Or reporting the fact, you know Ampat what a fact is don't you, that with his income, he would be paying less in taxes under the Obama plan. Hell man, every media outlet including FOX has reported the truths about the guy. I've heard nor seen no one, no "Dems" no one in the media "demonize" Joe in any way shape or form. If you can actually find an example of that, please share.

Anonymous said...

Ya know, I've been thinkin'....That Sarah Palin, she's a great gal. As governor of the great state of don't know but "I'll Ask Ya", ya know what she did? She gave her citizens, all her citizens don't ya know, money from some businesses, profits I'm tellen' ya, that operate in the state. Ya you betcha. She had to fight hard for us though. She ended up havin' to take Joe the Oilman to court, but after it was all said and done, she spread some of Joe's profits around to all her people. Some of them can now more afford fuel for the helicopter on the next wolf hunt.

American Patriot said...

Anon 11:29, there isn't enough room on this blog to list all the dems and their slash and burn comments about this guy. Liberal bloggers splashed his personal tax information on the web, etc.

Let's look though at what your own nominee has done. Barackmadinejad has paraded his own "plumber" out there saying he knows of no plumber making $250k a year and that Joe is giving other plumbers a "bad name."

What this incident has done is to make average people think twice before asking a presidential candidate a question for fear of being destroyed.

Barackmadinejad realizes the answer he gave reveals who he really is. He will continue to demonize this poor bastard to clear him from the playing field.

Consider this when looking at Barackmadinejad's tax plan. According to the IRS for the 2006 tax year, the bottom 50% of wage earners in the US pay only 2.99% of the total tax burden. The upper 5% paid 60% of the taxes. If 95% get a tax cut, how much higher will the upper 5% pay? If liberals want more money, earn it.

Anonymous said...

Far left bloggers, just like far right bloggers can and do write vile things about the oposition. Have you read the Free Republic lately or are they OK because they are on your side? I ask again, give an example of mainstream Dems or media who have gone personal and demonized or ripped him a new one. I can put anything in quotation marks too, so please give some attribution to your claim when you come up with an example. There's plenty of room on this blog for you to make your case. I really am willing to give you benifit of the doubt here.

Anonymous said...

Of the (so called main stream) media stories about Joe I have read, along with commentary from the PBS talking heads Friday night, all have been quite fair to the plumber. Pat Buchannon listed the truths about his actual job, income, the taxes he owes, etc, and like the print stories I have read or read about, talked about how Joe is really a metaphor for the average person who is concerned about his or her business and tax situation. The news stories and opinion pieces I have read have mentioned Joe as articulate and well informed. I would have to agree that telling the truths about Joe's story is not demonizing but simply reporting.

Anonymous said...

AMPAT, if you can't locate these examples, don't just be pissed off at those of us who ask for these things. Ask yourself why these examples are hard to find. Ask yourself if all the outrage you are reading about and participating in is justified. I can't imagine you like being lied to and led down a certain path any more than I do. And yes, I know very well that the far left likes to lie and lead opinion towards their way of thinking too.

Anonymous said...

Chris Wallace is interviewing McMcain on Fox News as I am writing this. Wallace just challenged McCain on Joe the Plumber being "Savaged" by Dems. Wallace says it's not happening.

American Patriot said...

Well I never thought I'd see the day when a damned liberal agreed with ANYTHING anybody said on Fox News.

As a conservative, I disagree with Chris Wallace. Have any of the questioners in the town hall debate audience had their taxes made public or if they really do what they claim to do for a living?

Anonymous said...

IF I may quote Ronald Regan..."There you go again" A-Patriot. Anon 815 seems not to be agreeing or dis-agreeing with Wallace, just reporting what he or she saw. How interesting that you damn this person and (again) ASSume he or she to be a liberal. And you, Mr. or Ms. Patriot, seem to imply that Joe the Plumber is claiming to be something other than a plumber? Is that how I read you here? I don't think he has claimed to be anything else, but maybe I'm wrong on that one.
And, how many questioners in a THDA have been mentioned by name 24 times in a Presidential debate? I will give you this though, the lady at the town hall meeting who questioned McCain about Obama being a Muslim was mocked on SNL's Thursday night special. Damn funny. Sarah Palin did a very good job Saturday on SNL. Good sense of comedic timing and didn't look like she had to stare at que cards.

American Patriot said...

Now you can parse or take out of context the comments of "Joe the six term Senator's" comments about how Barackmadinejad's inexperience will result in some nation "testing his mettle."

Biden's comments translates into you elect Barackmadinejad and fasten your seatbelts. Vote for McCain and no one will "test" his mettle.


Anonymous said...

AMPAT, you've taken up a lot of "room on this blog" not giving examples of what you implied was plentiful. Nothing yet eh? And please give context to your last post. I havn't kept up with the news today. I would appreciate it.

American Patriot said...

Dear Anon, I apologize for taking up so much room on this blog, but count the number of "anon" posts versus mine.

I'm sure, by now, you know of Biden's latest "Oops, I did it again" comment.

Anonymous said...

The number of anon posts have absolutely nothing to do with you inability to back up your earlier claims. And by the way, you are just another anon unless your family name is Patriot and your parents played a cruel game when you were born. It's clear you are indeed "feigning outrage" over the all Joe the Plumber all the time weekend.
Yes I have finally seen reports of Biden's latest open mouth project. I see it as just another opportunity for you and yours to make a mountain out of a mole hill and feign more outrage. You have put lipstik on a comment.

American Patriot said...

Anon 7:06. Whatever.